Question: In 1997, you began an impressive journey with the bar. Could you please tell us about your early days at the bar and which lawyers in particular had the most impact on you?
In 1997, I embarked on my legal journey under the guidance of Professor Madhav Menon, who initiated my entrance to the Supreme Court. Initially, I joined the chambers of Mr. P.P. Rao, a highly respected figure in the legal profession. From 1979 until around 1990, I learned extensively from various luminaries in the field, including Palkiwala. During this time, I had the privilege of briefing esteemed senior counsels such as Mr. Swarati and Mr. Ram Jethmalani, as well as building a good rapport with former Attorney General Mr. Ashok Desai. Each of these legal giants had their own unique qualities and expertise. For example, I admired Jethmalani’s tenacious courtroom skills, while figures like Mr. Parasaran impressed me with their erudition in Sanskrit and civil law traditions. My own mentor, Mr. Rao, instilled in me a commitment to meticulous preparation in every case. Ultimately, I am grateful to all these individuals for collectively shaping my understanding of how to effectively serve as a counsel, providing the insights and assistance expected by the court. As I reflect on my journey, I realize that the position of Attorney General has come to me unexpectedly, but it is a role I embrace with the knowledge and experience gained from these esteemed mentors.
Question: What inspired your decision to join the Chambers of P.P. Rao in 1979 and how did that particular experience shape your early legal career?
Professor Menon played a pivotal role in my legal career, becoming a mentor and guiding me through challenging times, such as the passing of my father. Initially practicing in Pondicherry, I faced uncertainty about my future in the legal profession. However, Professor Menon intervened and arranged for me to practice in the Supreme Court. Despite my apprehensions about moving to a new city without any connections, his encouragement to embrace risks motivated me to seize the opportunity.
Under the mentorship of Professor Menon and later Mr. P.P. Rao, I began my journey in the Supreme Court, initially assisting with legal research and collaborating on projects such as a constitutional law book chapter. In those days, legal research relied solely on printed digests due to the absence of digital tools. Through this work, I had the privilege of interacting with esteemed judges like Justice Krishna Iyer and Justice Bhagwati, who took a liking to me.
While the early years were financially challenging, I found fulfillment and satisfaction in my work, gradually building my private practice. Despite the hurdles faced as a first-generation lawyer without extensive social networks, I persevered and continued to progress in my profession. The formative years were marked by the support and guidance of many individuals who helped me establish myself and navigate the complexities of the legal profession.
Question: And of course, sir, you are a renowned poet. Apart from being a senior counsel, how have you been able to make the time and headspace for literature while being in a field as demanding as litigation?
Before pursuing law, during my time as a B.Sc. (Physics) student in Chennai, I established connections with fellow students from various colleges in Madras. Together, we formed the Indian Youth Association in 1972-1973, with a motto emphasizing the youth’s role in shaping India’s future. As part of this association, we published a fortnightly magazine in Tamil focusing on national affairs, where we held editorial, writing, and contributing roles. This experience sparked my interest in politics, leading me to delve into political science and history alongside my legal practice.
Under the guidance of Professor Menon, whom I admired for his visionary contributions to legal education, I developed a passion for interdisciplinary learning. Today, I avidly explore diverse subjects, excluding only advanced mathematics. I believe that a comprehensive understanding of various disciplines is essential for lawyers to excel. My longstanding colleague, Mrs. Vijayalakshmi, has been instrumental in this journey, though she may object to being called my editor-in-chief. We have grown together, sharing a love for reading and continuous learning.
Following my appointment, I have been inspired to engage in initiatives aimed at advancing legal education and aligning it with the ideals of justice, as advocated by Professor Menon. While traditional legal education focuses on courtroom practice and financial gain, I envision a shift towards “justice education,” where the legal system prioritizes compassion and care for individuals. My dream is for courts to evolve into centers of empathy and support, embodying the principles of justice education.
Question: What are your thoughts on the dialogue regarding the scope of use of vernacular in higher judiciary?
English has become a dominant global language, impacting our thinking processes. However, our native languages have suffered due to this dominance, hindering their development over time. While the constitution designates English as the language of the Supreme Court and High Courts, determining a national language presents challenges, as many states may not accept Hindi or other regional languages. Conversations and transactions in native languages are crucial for effective communication, as seen in various High Courts across India. Nonetheless, writing judgments in regional languages can be problematic. Simplifying legislation and transforming courts into resolution centers rather than litigation hubs could alleviate language barriers. Additionally, the vast amount of legal literature available in English may not require translation into regional languages in the future, as historical figures and concepts may become less relevant over time. Ultimately, while leisurely reading in different languages remains valuable, for practical purposes, native language usage may evolve based on the changing legal landscape.
Question: As a follow-up to that, during the Constituent Assembly debates, Dr. B. R. Ambedkar suggested that Sanskrit should be proposed as the official national language for work purposes at the Union level. Could the landscape of Indian legality have been different had that measure been applied? Further, would it have affected the decolonization of Indian judiciary and Indian legal system?
The adoption of Sanskrit for public purposes would have posed numerous challenges, considering the diversity of cultures and languages in India. Establishing Sanskrit as a widespread language would have required significant infrastructure development and language system substitution. However, despite assertions that Sanskrit could never die due to its cultural roots, transforming it into a modern medium of communication like other Indian languages would necessitate extensive efforts in various fields such as science, technology, law, and medicine. This endeavor would have demanded a dedicated national initiative, yet cultural and political tensions, including debates on the Aryan-Dravidian divide, have complicated such efforts. Nonetheless, acknowledging the cultural significance of Sanskrit and its contributions to various disciplines could potentially facilitate its integration into mainstream discourse. However, whether Dr. Ambedkar would have supported such efforts remains uncertain. Ultimately, language growth occurs organically, and contrived means may not be effective in fostering linguistic development. Therefore, my analysis of this topic may be limited due to my lack of expertise in the process of language evolution.
Question: Moving forward, a recent discussion has been sparked with regards to the manner of appointment of judges and the utility of the collegium. What are your thoughts on the same?
We shouldn’t perceive the collegium as a problematic institution. Were there issues with appointments before the introduction of the collegium system? The idea of a national judicial appointment commission was debated for over a decade before legislation was enacted. The concern about these laws encroaching upon judicial independence may have been overstated. Had the courts not intervened, we would have seen a different experiment with its outcomes. However, the courts prioritized judicial independence and minimal executive interference in appointments, leading to the establishment of the collegium system.
Now, the focus shifts to who makes the appointments and how they do it. While transparency in the collegium system is discussed, appointments often favor individuals with social advantages such as familial connections, social status, or wealth. This perpetuates a system where certain families dominate judicial appointments. Thus, the challenge lies in transcending these biases.
We need to move towards a system where the decision-making process holds more significance than who makes the decision. Currently, the nomination process for high court appointments still reflects these biases, albeit to a lesser extent. Efforts should aim to increase the representation of promising lawyers from diverse backgrounds. Criticisms of the collegium system by former judges may not be constructive.
Question: What you essentially were saying was that a lot of times familial connections play an important part in a person’s ability to climb the ladder in this fraternity to a certain degree. Another aspect of Indian society is that these familial connections come with a lot of social identities; social locations such as gender, caste, class, and religion. Given the nature of these social locations and the nature of collegium inclining slightly towards giving priority to familial connections, is there a possibility of certain social identities having a better chance in this fraternity and maybe even in the judiciary?
Let’s examine various reasons for the lack of inclusivity. Political discourse often highlights divisions between religious communities, potentially marginalizing certain groups, such as the Islamic community. Inclusivity entails providing equal opportunities for all individuals. However, achieving inclusivity requires not only education but also the right attitude, inclination, and determination to pursue opportunities. Many professionals in different communities are content with their current status and lack the ambition to progress further, complicating efforts for inclusivity.
Another factor is the emphasis on meritocracy, which can inadvertently perpetuate discrimination. The debate over meritocracy versus discrimination is particularly prominent in the United States. While merit is essential, it’s crucial to recognize that not everyone has equal opportunities to develop their merit. Achieving a balance between inclusivity and meritocracy poses a significant challenge.
In totalitarian regimes like communist China, leadership positions are typically filled by individuals with vision, competence, and understanding. However, history has shown that leadership positions have sometimes been occupied by individuals lacking these qualities. Thus, effectively managing inclusivity and meritocracy remains a complex task.
Efforts to promote inclusivity have been proposed, such as the Equal Opportunities Commission’s recommendation to base assistance on a Social Deprivation Index rather than religious or ethnic criteria. This approach aims to address socio-economic disparities beyond race, religion, or faith. Pursuing such initiatives could lead to a more inclusive society.
Question: You recently talked about the importance of lawyers participating in the legal aid processes. You also mentioned that lawyers should not treat legal aid as charity. So how, in your opinion, can young lawyers incorporate legal aid as well as pro bono cases in the early years of their practice?
Legal aid is often voluntary, but without some level of compulsion or coercion, few individuals would willingly offer assistance. Many young professionals prioritize earning back the investment made in their education, often leading them to pursue lucrative opportunities rather than pro bono work. While legal aid can serve as valuable training for young lawyers, there remains a need to develop a system that allows early-career professionals to both earn and serve effectively.
Reflecting on personal experiences, the speaker recalls a notable legal aid case involving a poor scheduled caste woman whose land was wrongfully occupied by a local politician. Successfully representing her and securing the return of her land left a lasting impression. Additionally, the speaker has been involved in numerous pro bono cases throughout their career, including assisting a tribal woman in a high-profile human rights case. Serving as the president of a human rights organization further highlights their commitment to public service.
Regarding representation, the speaker notes that representing the state differs from representing individuals due to the broader scope of interests involved. Advocating for the state requires considering a larger perspective and balancing various concerns, which comes with experience and poses unique challenges. Despite these challenges, representing the state is described as a rewarding and enriching experience.
Question: Sir, you have been representing the state for a long time. How, according to you, your experience in representing the state is different from that to an individual?
Representing the state involves considering broader interests compared to representing an individual. Balancing the concerns of a representative institution and those of individuals requires a nuanced approach. Speaking on behalf of a government provides a wider perspective, requiring a thorough understanding of the overall picture and the ability to address various aspects. This comprehension develops with experience and contributes to a rewarding and enriching professional journey.
Question: How conducive is the environment, especially infrastructurally, to accommodate the new criminal codes?
I believe we can soon address that question confidently. For example, the new code of procedure introduces a direct rate of prosecution, marking a fresh attempt. It’s essentially a reorganization of the current system. With the advancing technology and initiatives like the national judicial grid by the Supreme Court, many challenges can be effectively managed. While infrastructure may present some concerns at present, I anticipate that within the next five years, we will have found solutions to this question.
Question: Could you share some words of wisdom or advice for young lawyers?
I believe in nothing but hard work. Many people say that hard work leads to success in life, and I agree. However, my perspective on hard work is not solely focused on achieving success. Hard work brings satisfaction, which in turn boosts confidence and motivates further progress. Reading extensively is also crucial, regardless of immediate rewards. Although reading may not directly result in financial gain, it nourishes the mind and spirit. Patience and honesty are equally important virtues to uphold, both with oneself and with others.
